Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

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DaCs
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Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#1

Post by DaCs »

Hi everybody

I have many doubts, as I have always said, I have no experience in old motorcycles and less in panhead. Maybe what I am going to say here may be obvious to some but I am somewhat confused, I hope you can help me.

I have started assembling the rocker clutch but in the hand shift kit I bought it appears to be compatible with the year (1961 mine), however in the parts manual mark that rod as 66 onwards, which rod should I use? As you can see, also the space between the primary and the transmission is reduced, I do not know if it is correct.

In the other picture, which rod fastener should i use, 1 or 2? In this forum someone had already asked about number 2, what I understood it was used in 65 onwards so as not to touch the primary cover.
This is because also, as you can see, I had to use the spacer that goes from the frame to the pedal, if not , the pedal hits the primary cover, therefore the rod will now also be more out, and the clutch lever in the transmission I don't know if it would be too short, I understand that I should use 37051-36.

I hope you can help me with information or pictures, regards!

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1950Panhead
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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#2

Post by 1950Panhead »

When you press the back part of the rocker clutch with your heel this pulls the clutch lever forward releasing the clutch to shift gears.
When you press the front part of the rocker clutch with your toe the clutch is engaged and motorcycle moves.
Use the clutch rod that is the correct length for this function.
Photo attached for 49 pan.
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RUBONE
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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#3

Post by RUBONE »

Two major things appear in your pictures.
1, the top on your transmission is a foot shift, not hand shift top. That in itself prevents anything from working.
2, the clutch pedal you show is for '65 up electric start models, the one you need is for '46-'64 dogleg style pedal models, they do not use the lever on the engine side of the pedal but instead the rod connects directly to the pedal and is much more outboard.

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#4

Post by DaCs »

RUBONE wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:17 am
the top on your transmission is a foot shift, not hand shift top. That in itself prevents anything from working.
Dammit honestly, I never paid attention to that detail, it is disappointing to have to go back to what you already finished, but I understand that it is part of this and I must continue and solve it.

If I could find a top transmission case, the internal shift barrel and most of its components on top case can be used in the new case? or better to buy a complete one just top put it? At first glance I see that the neutral switch would be removed as well.

About clutch pedal, I only see differently the lever on the engine side, but i also need to use the spacer from frame to the pedal, this despite using the correct primary cap, because the pedal hit primary to the up and down operation (without spacer), maybe because im using a shovelhead frame. Also using a correct pedal you told me it will hit primary right? I mean, that spacer its necesary and only the lever on the engine side of the pedal will make it notice that it is not the stock?

Using frame to clutch pedal spacer will even make me to modify the length of clutch release lever arm, its sad.

Thank you so much and thank you for the help!

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#5

Post by 1950Panhead »

If I could find a top transmission case, the internal shift barrel and most of its components on top case can be used in the new case? or better to buy a complete one just top put it? At first glance I see that the neutral switch would be removed as well.
Hand shift covers appear on ebay frequently.

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#6

Post by RooDog »

DaC....
The frame makes no difference, rigid, Pan or Shovel, are all the same in the area we are dealing with.

The arm across the top of transmission only changes when you use the electric start, large cast aluminum, primary. Again this does not apply here.

The neutral switch means nothing,

Do you actually have a shift lever and parts on your gas tank? If not, why not use the ratchet top, and foot shift? Otherwise you will have to remove your transmission out the left side of the bike and change out the transmission top for a hand shift top. Be sure to confirm that the two sliding shifting clutches are spaced properly and all the gears shift smoothly and engage properly. Don't lose the little "top hat" rollers on the shifting forks.

Have a look here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRANSMISSION-H ... SwaB5XqhgH

All your foot clutch parts need to be pre-1965, 1964 and older application, for tin primary, And use a frame to bracket spacer only if needed....
....RooDog....

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#7

Post by DaCs »

Thanks RooDog

The arm that passes over the transmission, I see no problem, my concern now is what you mention, if I put the correct hand shift cover on top of the transmission, should I need to move the transmission to left? you can help me with that? and also if the internal components I own work for the new top case? As you mentioned, if my clutch pedal is not correct but there is no difference regarding the frame, why without the spacer the clutch pedal is hitting primary? From what I understood, the clutch pedal pre 65 and later, only differs in that small bar that protects from not hitting the primary.

Im so confused now, also because of the fact of its not just install new case or put correct clutch pedal.

This pedal in yellow, is the one that hits primary if I dont use spacer. In my parts manual just appears pedal 36810-65.

https://hydra-glide.com/cpg/displayimage.php?pid=9271

Regards!

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#8

Post by nmaineron »

From the looks of your clutch/shift riggin, seems it is set up to go either way. Instead of the longer thin rod on the clutch side that goes to the lever that comes out over the primary for hand shifting or you go to the inside of the pedal assembly to the arm that goes to the ratchet for foot shifting. You don't need to move the transmission and the tops are interchangeable.Worse that can happen is that you may have to do some shimming in the drum.

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#9

Post by RooDog »

I do not believe the top can be removed with both the transmission and the oil tank in place, but I may be wrong about that.
Surely one can not check the shifting fork spacing while in place. And this must be done since the hand shift drum may, or may not, be keyed a bit differently than the one currently in place.

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#10

Post by RUBONE »

nmaineron wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:51 pm
From the looks of your clutch/shift riggin, seems it is set up to go either way. Instead of the longer thin rod on the clutch side that goes to the lever that comes out over the primary for hand shifting or you go to the inside of the pedal assembly to the arm that goes to the ratchet for foot shifting. You don't need to move the transmission and the tops are interchangeable.Worse that can happen is that you may have to do some shimming in the drum.
Not correct. The foot pedal with the inner arm is for use on '65-'79 handshift bikes using the special clutch arm for the clutch linkage. It has nothing to do with any footshift set-up. For pre '65 the pivots on the pedal themselves are used.

The transmission must come out to switch tops and correctly space the shifter forks.

And no internal parts of the shiter tops interchange. The drum and linkage differ from hand to foot shift tops.

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#11

Post by DaCs »

RUBONE wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:23 pm
nmaineron wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:51 pm
From the looks of your clutch/shift riggin, seems it is set up to go either way. Instead of the longer thin rod on the clutch side that goes to the lever that comes out over the primary for hand shifting or you go to the inside of the pedal assembly to the arm that goes to the ratchet for foot shifting. You don't need to move the transmission and the tops are interchangeable.Worse that can happen is that you may have to do some shimming in the drum.
Not correct. The foot pedal with the inner arm is for use on '65-'79 handshift bikes using the special clutch arm for the clutch linkage. It has nothing to do with any footshift set-up. For pre '65 the pivots on the pedal themselves are used.

The transmission must come out to switch tops and correctly space the shifter forks.

And no internal parts of the shiter tops interchange. The drum and linkage differ from hand to foot shift tops.
Can you help me with this question? Besides the internal arm on 65 later clutch pedal, is the size of the pedal in pre 65 is smaller? this is regarding the question of why the pedal hits my primary cover. I do not want to buy the pre 65 and keep hitting for some other mistake that I am making. Also if you can help me with the correct part number for the pre 65 pedal assembly.

Regarding the transmission, as you mentioned, I will have to buy it with all the internal components because they are not compatible, but and at the bottom there is no compatibility problem, right?

Thanks again

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#12

Post by RooDog »

The pedal you need is the 1941-64, OEM # 36811-41, there is no V-Twin # that I can find for just the pedal.
The entire pedal & bracket assembly is available as V-Twin # 22-0720, 1940-84....
I do not know what the differences between any of them may be.....
....RooDog....

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#13

Post by RooDog »

Regarding the transmission, as you mentioned, I will have to buy it with all the internal components because they are not compatible, but and at the bottom there is no compatibility problem, right?

Thanks again
[/quote]

Once you remove the top the rest of the transmission parts are all the same. You only need to change the top assemblies.....
....RooDog....

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#14

Post by DaCs »

Now I can see the difference in the position of the rod holder. The pre its closer to frame by the rod holder, it resolve my clutch arm issue. Taking advantage of your help, regarding the pedal hitting the primary, will it correct itself? I see the same distance between the clutch pedal base and the frame from pre 65 and post of pedals.

Regards

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Re: Many rocker clutch and hand shift issues

#15

Post by flatheadDave »

Can you help me with this question? Besides the internal arm on 65 later clutch pedal, is the size of the pedal in pre 65 is smaller? this is regarding the question of why the pedal hits my primary cover. I do not want to buy the pre 65 and keep hitting for some other mistake that I am making. Also if you can help me with the correct part number for the pre 65 pedal assembly.

[/quote]

Theres a spacer so the clutch pedal is further out from the primary cover so it won't hit it. I went through this issue on another thread.

https://www.hydra-glide.com/phpBB3/view ... ry#p133373

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