Frame ID

Identification information of frames and transmissions
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jason.weir
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Frame ID

#1

Post by jason.weir »

looking at this frame, advertised as a late pan\early shovel frame - sorry for the bad picture

Image

Motor mount code of L1 or L7 rear casting # of 47645-65.

Looks like a straight (non-L shaped) motor mount hole.

Does that make this either a 67 or a 71 frame?

The guy couldn't see any vin number on the downtubes?

What do you guys think? Any other identifying features you guys can see from the pictures.

Thanks,
Jason



jdpan
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Re: Frame ID

#2

Post by jdpan »

I'll venture an observation. No vin (on the right side neck downtube?) makes it pre '70 and being a non drop down frame makes it a non Panhead so, somewhere between '59 and '69. Not sure when the square swingarm came out, that could narrow it down even more. To me it looks like a generic Shovelhead frame cept for the vin. '67 - '69??

Robert Luland
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Re: Frame ID

#3

Post by Robert Luland »

That's an electric start frame. 65 up.

Hog54
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Re: Frame ID

#4

Post by Hog54 »

Does it have a neck lock?If it does then it could only be a 67.

58flh
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Re: Frame ID

#5

Post by 58flh »

I agree with ROB L---1965-up electric-start pan-frame---can use shovel, Also it would be nice to see the swingarm!--58flh 8)

jason.weir
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Re: Frame ID

#6

Post by jason.weir »

looking closer - do you guys see the gusset on the left side rear, this gusset was added in 68, that rules out it being a 67.. More and more I think this is a 71 frame that's had the vin removed or hidden, that and the seller indicated the neck looks "filled in" - It's going cheap but I think I'm gonna pass on it. Thanks.. Jason

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Re: Frame ID

#7

Post by Robert Luland »

The gusset plate was offered by the factory for repair from the early 60s on as a dealer install item. Long before the factory started installing them on the line. Bob L

Bosheff
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Re: Frame ID

#8

Post by Bosheff »

If it is a 65-69 frame, it came from the factory with a frame lug under the tranny for use with the factory jack. Most of the time this lug has been removed if the machine is not close to original, as it usually interfers with custom exhaust systems. 1968 was supposedly the last year of the factory neck lock (non padlock), but I have personally owned a 69 that had the 58-68 factory neck lock that was an original untouched machine. 68 and later had the gusset on the rear downtube on the drive side, and this may have been added at a later date, but that is unlikely. If the seller says the factory neck lock has been filled in, I'm bettin the frame is a 70 and later that has had the number boss removed or possibly a 69. 69 and later will have a hole in the neck on the kicker side of the frame to mate up with the lower tree for a padlock to pass through. This hole will be obvious if the frame has not been altered in the neck area....bosheff

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Re: Frame ID

#9

Post by 58flh »

Bosheff wrote:If it is a 65-69 frame, it came from the factory with a frame lug under the tranny for use with the factory jack. Most of the time this lug has been removed if the machine is not close to original, as it usually interfers with custom exhaust systems. 1968 was supposedly the last year of the factory neck lock (non padlock), but I have personally owned a 69 that had the 58-68 factory neck lock that was an original untouched machine. 68 and later had the gusset on the rear downtube on the drive side, and this may have been added at a later date, but that is unlikely. If the seller says the factory neck lock has been filled in, I'm bettin the frame is a 70 and later that has had the number boss removed or possibly a 69. 69 and later will have a hole in the neck on the kicker side of the frame to mate up with the lower tree for a padlock to pass through. This hole will be obvious if the frame has not been altered in the neck area....bosheff
I agree--if the neck-lock has been filled(bondoed-up)- Good chance its a shovel frame!---58flh :)

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Re: Frame ID

#10

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Jason, the shape of the opening in the top engine mount as well as the overall outside shape of said mount both combine to indicate a 1970 or later model frame, although it's possible some late-69 model frames had that type of mount.

So from the two possibilities for the date code, L 1 is more likely and that would indicate December 1971 manufacture which in turn could indicate a 1972 model frame, or maybe even an early-73 model frame because Harley didn't always use things straight away.

If it's a 72 or early-73 model frame then a gusset would have been attached at the factory and placed forward of the left rear downtube because that began with mid/late-68 model frames.

The arrow in the picture is also pointing toward the area where a loop for the rear brake line was originally attached for frames for 1958 -early-73. (Even though the loop was not required for 1973 model bikes it was still present on some early-73 model frames.) Beginning with models for about 1970, the loop was positioned so its top was about level with the top of the lower frame casting but prior to that the loop was about an inch lower down. But I ca't even be sure a loop is on that frame. If the loop is there and it's original to the frame then that would indicate the frame is no later than an early-73 model. But of course somebody could have cut if off for whatever reason.

Something else that would help with ID are the numbers that may be found in the recesses of both the lower rear castings but just the left number may do. On the lower left casting, a 1970-early-73 model frame may have 47654 65. But if it has 47654-73 then that would indicate a mid-73 or later model frame.

You mentioned casting number 47645-65. That was first used for 1965 models and usually appears on both upper rear castings. A couple of photos I have may suggest that the CN remained the same through 72 but by 75 at the latest it had changed to 47645-65-Y although I don't yet know the reason for the Y.

But if you think there's a problem regarding the VIN or lack thereof then I recommend not buying the frame.
Eric

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Re: Frame ID

#11

Post by Speeding Big Twin »

Robert Luland wrote:The gusset plate was offered by the factory for repair from the early 60s on as a dealer install item. Long before the factory started installing them on the line. Bob L
Bob, repair part #47261-68 is in my 1961-71 catalog for use on frames from early-68 back through 58:

Image

But on the page covering frame and rear fork in my 1958–68 catalog I have nothing about an earlier gusset.

Is the gusset you mentioned from the early-60s listed in any factory documentation? And if so, are you able to post a copy of it?
Is the early gusset the same style as the later one?
Can you provide the part number for that early gusset?
Eric

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